Classic Dusty
A lot of what Dusty says and does gives you insight to how he thinks about the game. On the classic Dusty page, we'll go through a bunch of these head-scratchers in no particular order.
1. Clogging Up the Bases
Cubs fans are quite familiar with this comment. In 2006, when asked about how they would improve the Cubs terrible on base percentage, Dusty gave one of his most infamous quotes: "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
Really, this explains a lot about how Dusty approaches the lead-off position. One could take this a step further to say Dusty would prefer a fast guy make an out, than a slower guy get on base. (Corey Patterson, Willy Taveras, Drew Stubbs - see a pattern?)
2. Corey Patterson
Corey underachieved so well in Chicago, that Dusty wanted to bring him along to Cincinnati. As a non roster invitee, Patterson made the team over top prospect Jay Bruce. Of course, Corey was etched in as the primary lead off hitter from day 1. In just shy of 400 plate appearances, he batted .205 with an on-base percentage of .238. But thank god those bases weren't clogged!
To further cement the idea that Dusty was oblivious to how bad this guy was, Hal McCoy wrote the following in April of 2008 when Patterson was finally given a night off from batting lead off, while in the midst of an 0 - 20 and 1 - 28 slump.
"Baker was not aware of Patterson’s slump until a writer informed him Sunday.
“Really?” said Baker. “I did not know that. He hasn’t been striking out a lot so a long stretch of no hits is not as noticeable as when a guy piles up the strikeouts.”
Nice.
3. Willy Taveras
Alright, in 2008 we got burned with a guy who was fast, but had really struggled to get on base throughout his career. Lesson learned? Of course not. With the free agent signing of Willy Taveras, Dusty sees him as the obvious choice to bat lead off. He is both fast and plays center field for goodness sake! Taveras came in off a season where he got on base at a .308 clip. In many ways he was Corey Patterson with zero power. Taveras didn't clog the bases though, batting .240 with a .275 OBP.
Baseball Prospectus noted the following: "Baker’s inability to exploit the leadoff spot is nothing new. Now in his 17th season as a manager, the aggregate rates for a Baker leadoff hitter are .264/.327/.382. Baker leadoff hitters have drawn more than 87 walks in a season only once, in 1998. More often, they have drawn fewer than 60. Overall, his leadoff hitters have averaged 749 plate appearances and 61 walks per season. While we would expect leadoff hitters to have a higher walk rate than the average hitter, Baker’s leadoff men have actually had a slightly lower walk rate than the average National League non-pitcher."
4. Drew Stubbs
Let's save time, just read 2 and 3 above. Also add Orlando Cabrera to this list of terrible lead off hitter selection.
5. Handling Chris Heisey
The 2009 Reds minor league player of the year, who hit .314 with 22 home runs and 77 RBI across each of the Reds minor league teams. In 2010, he excelled as a pinch hitter and showed he is an above average outfielder. Unfortunately for Heisey, being a clutch pinch hitter could have been the worst thing that happened to him. Dusty comes from the school of thought that he is so valuable off the bench, we can't afford to let him play every day. Jonny Gomes, who had a great first half, had a terrible second half but was rarely taken out of the line-up in favor of Heisey.
After the way 2010 ended, with Gomes really struggling and Heisey showing great promise, one might assume Heisey would have the inside track to the left field job. Enter Fred Lewis. A mediocre left fielder, with no power, a .267 hitter, and suspect on defense. Dustratingly enough, the 2011 platoon was Gomes and Lewis. One could make a legitimate argument that Heisey surpasses both of these guys in all 5 'tools'. The problem for Heisey was, he was too good as a pinch hitter.
“Heisey is remarkable at coming off the bench and doing that,” said Baker. “Now if we can transfer that to when he is plays because as a pinch-hitter he is one of the best.”
I have an idea, let's have the guy start for 3 weeks and see what happens. Unfortunately under Baker, that is likely to never happen. In 2012, the continual flow of journeyman outfielders to play ahead of Heisey continues. Ryan Ludwick, who had a couple of great years, has seen significant declines over the last 2 seasons. Funny enough, here were Dusty's comments:
'Ludwick is going to play. But I don’t want to thwart the progress on Chris Heisey,' Baker said. 'I had a long talk with Ludwick. I told him everybody on my team plays. Heisey has earned to the chance to play.”
That's right, the last thing Dusty wants to do is thwart Chris Heisey's progress. But when you have stars like Fred Lewis and Jonny Gomes, and with Drew Stubbs lighting it up in center field, how do you fit that guy in the lineup to see what he does over an extended period of time?
6. The Alonso Experiment
The Reds have since traded Yonder Alonso, but Dusty managed to mishandle him the short time he was here in the big leagues. Knowing that Votto would be occupying 1st base for a while, the Reds had their AAA team play Alonso in left field so he would have a way to get his bat into the Major League line-up. In 70 games in left for Louisville, he committed 0 errors. That is right, 0.
Finally, Alonso was brought up to the Majors and given a shot in left field. He played a really bad game in Wrigley Field, and after 3 games in left, Dusty declared that the Alonso in left experiment was over. This of course coming from the organization who put up with slow pitch softball player Adam Dunn in left for many years, simply because he could hit homers. So after spending most of the season trying to teach the guy a new position, Dusty puts an end to that after 3 days (a big confidence boost for a young player) so we can get guys like Fred Lewis back out there.
The next idea was to play Alonso at third, where he had played a little bit in college. He got that chance for a little while, but soon after, with the Reds statistically out of the race, we went back to seeing what Miguel Cairo could do over there while the young guys on our 40 man sat around. What do you have to lose? If you are out of it, let some of these guys get their reps and see what they can do. I am pretty sure we knew what guys like Edgar Renteria could do already.
7. Paul Bako
The career .231 batting 36 year old was out of work, but he was one of Dusty's guys. So he was invited to Spring Training in 2008. Here is what Dusty said:
How much did Baker like Bako in Chicago?
"A lot -- that's why he's here," Baker said.
Baker said it's possible the Reds could carry three catchers.
"It depends on how things go," Baker said. "Late in the game, you'd love to have a guy like Bako behind the plate for a double switch or to pinch-hit. I told [general manager] Wayne [Krivsky] I'm looking for options. The more options I have, the more things you can do, the more people that can play and be put positions where they feel comfortable and succeed."
Of course Bako made the team. In fact, he played in 99 games and had more at bats that Javier Valentin and David Ross. He batted .217 for the Reds, but Dusty kept running him out there. As Dusty says, what team wouldn't want a third catcher like Paul Bako that you can pinch hit with late in the game.
Paul Bako can be added to the list of reasons you have to "Dusty-proof" your roster. As Dusty said "the more options I have, the more things you can do." This is why when you see names like Bako, Renteria, and Patterson on your roster, plan on them playing way more than they should.
8. His War on Walks
Fans often complain that the reds aren't patient enough as a team. They swing at bad pitches and strikeout too much. Besides item #1 above, here are a few more gems from Baker about how he doesn't really like walks: (courtesy of Baseball Prospectus)
"I think walks are overrated unless you can run... If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps. But the guy who walks and can't run, most of the time they're clogging up the bases for somebody who can run."
--Dusty Baker, Cubs manager (Chicago Daily Herald)
"Who's been the champions the last seven, eight years? ...Have you ever heard the Yankees talk about on-base percentage and walks? Walks help. But you ain't going to walk across the plate. You're going to hit across the plate. That's the school I come from."
--Baker
Footnote, to answer Dusty's question about the Yankees. "The intent was to have a collection of guys with a high on-base percentage and a high slugging percentage, and that would lead to a lot of runs scored."
--Brian Cashman, Yankees GM, on off-season acquisitions
"It's called hitting, and it ain't called walking. Do you ever see the top 10 walking? You see top 10 batting average. A lot of those top 10 do walk. But the name of the game is to hit."
--Baker
If we missed anything - please use the contact form to let us know
1. Clogging Up the Bases
Cubs fans are quite familiar with this comment. In 2006, when asked about how they would improve the Cubs terrible on base percentage, Dusty gave one of his most infamous quotes: "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
Really, this explains a lot about how Dusty approaches the lead-off position. One could take this a step further to say Dusty would prefer a fast guy make an out, than a slower guy get on base. (Corey Patterson, Willy Taveras, Drew Stubbs - see a pattern?)
2. Corey Patterson
Corey underachieved so well in Chicago, that Dusty wanted to bring him along to Cincinnati. As a non roster invitee, Patterson made the team over top prospect Jay Bruce. Of course, Corey was etched in as the primary lead off hitter from day 1. In just shy of 400 plate appearances, he batted .205 with an on-base percentage of .238. But thank god those bases weren't clogged!
To further cement the idea that Dusty was oblivious to how bad this guy was, Hal McCoy wrote the following in April of 2008 when Patterson was finally given a night off from batting lead off, while in the midst of an 0 - 20 and 1 - 28 slump.
"Baker was not aware of Patterson’s slump until a writer informed him Sunday.
“Really?” said Baker. “I did not know that. He hasn’t been striking out a lot so a long stretch of no hits is not as noticeable as when a guy piles up the strikeouts.”
Nice.
3. Willy Taveras
Alright, in 2008 we got burned with a guy who was fast, but had really struggled to get on base throughout his career. Lesson learned? Of course not. With the free agent signing of Willy Taveras, Dusty sees him as the obvious choice to bat lead off. He is both fast and plays center field for goodness sake! Taveras came in off a season where he got on base at a .308 clip. In many ways he was Corey Patterson with zero power. Taveras didn't clog the bases though, batting .240 with a .275 OBP.
Baseball Prospectus noted the following: "Baker’s inability to exploit the leadoff spot is nothing new. Now in his 17th season as a manager, the aggregate rates for a Baker leadoff hitter are .264/.327/.382. Baker leadoff hitters have drawn more than 87 walks in a season only once, in 1998. More often, they have drawn fewer than 60. Overall, his leadoff hitters have averaged 749 plate appearances and 61 walks per season. While we would expect leadoff hitters to have a higher walk rate than the average hitter, Baker’s leadoff men have actually had a slightly lower walk rate than the average National League non-pitcher."
4. Drew Stubbs
Let's save time, just read 2 and 3 above. Also add Orlando Cabrera to this list of terrible lead off hitter selection.
5. Handling Chris Heisey
The 2009 Reds minor league player of the year, who hit .314 with 22 home runs and 77 RBI across each of the Reds minor league teams. In 2010, he excelled as a pinch hitter and showed he is an above average outfielder. Unfortunately for Heisey, being a clutch pinch hitter could have been the worst thing that happened to him. Dusty comes from the school of thought that he is so valuable off the bench, we can't afford to let him play every day. Jonny Gomes, who had a great first half, had a terrible second half but was rarely taken out of the line-up in favor of Heisey.
After the way 2010 ended, with Gomes really struggling and Heisey showing great promise, one might assume Heisey would have the inside track to the left field job. Enter Fred Lewis. A mediocre left fielder, with no power, a .267 hitter, and suspect on defense. Dustratingly enough, the 2011 platoon was Gomes and Lewis. One could make a legitimate argument that Heisey surpasses both of these guys in all 5 'tools'. The problem for Heisey was, he was too good as a pinch hitter.
“Heisey is remarkable at coming off the bench and doing that,” said Baker. “Now if we can transfer that to when he is plays because as a pinch-hitter he is one of the best.”
I have an idea, let's have the guy start for 3 weeks and see what happens. Unfortunately under Baker, that is likely to never happen. In 2012, the continual flow of journeyman outfielders to play ahead of Heisey continues. Ryan Ludwick, who had a couple of great years, has seen significant declines over the last 2 seasons. Funny enough, here were Dusty's comments:
'Ludwick is going to play. But I don’t want to thwart the progress on Chris Heisey,' Baker said. 'I had a long talk with Ludwick. I told him everybody on my team plays. Heisey has earned to the chance to play.”
That's right, the last thing Dusty wants to do is thwart Chris Heisey's progress. But when you have stars like Fred Lewis and Jonny Gomes, and with Drew Stubbs lighting it up in center field, how do you fit that guy in the lineup to see what he does over an extended period of time?
6. The Alonso Experiment
The Reds have since traded Yonder Alonso, but Dusty managed to mishandle him the short time he was here in the big leagues. Knowing that Votto would be occupying 1st base for a while, the Reds had their AAA team play Alonso in left field so he would have a way to get his bat into the Major League line-up. In 70 games in left for Louisville, he committed 0 errors. That is right, 0.
Finally, Alonso was brought up to the Majors and given a shot in left field. He played a really bad game in Wrigley Field, and after 3 games in left, Dusty declared that the Alonso in left experiment was over. This of course coming from the organization who put up with slow pitch softball player Adam Dunn in left for many years, simply because he could hit homers. So after spending most of the season trying to teach the guy a new position, Dusty puts an end to that after 3 days (a big confidence boost for a young player) so we can get guys like Fred Lewis back out there.
The next idea was to play Alonso at third, where he had played a little bit in college. He got that chance for a little while, but soon after, with the Reds statistically out of the race, we went back to seeing what Miguel Cairo could do over there while the young guys on our 40 man sat around. What do you have to lose? If you are out of it, let some of these guys get their reps and see what they can do. I am pretty sure we knew what guys like Edgar Renteria could do already.
7. Paul Bako
The career .231 batting 36 year old was out of work, but he was one of Dusty's guys. So he was invited to Spring Training in 2008. Here is what Dusty said:
How much did Baker like Bako in Chicago?
"A lot -- that's why he's here," Baker said.
Baker said it's possible the Reds could carry three catchers.
"It depends on how things go," Baker said. "Late in the game, you'd love to have a guy like Bako behind the plate for a double switch or to pinch-hit. I told [general manager] Wayne [Krivsky] I'm looking for options. The more options I have, the more things you can do, the more people that can play and be put positions where they feel comfortable and succeed."
Of course Bako made the team. In fact, he played in 99 games and had more at bats that Javier Valentin and David Ross. He batted .217 for the Reds, but Dusty kept running him out there. As Dusty says, what team wouldn't want a third catcher like Paul Bako that you can pinch hit with late in the game.
Paul Bako can be added to the list of reasons you have to "Dusty-proof" your roster. As Dusty said "the more options I have, the more things you can do." This is why when you see names like Bako, Renteria, and Patterson on your roster, plan on them playing way more than they should.
8. His War on Walks
Fans often complain that the reds aren't patient enough as a team. They swing at bad pitches and strikeout too much. Besides item #1 above, here are a few more gems from Baker about how he doesn't really like walks: (courtesy of Baseball Prospectus)
"I think walks are overrated unless you can run... If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps. But the guy who walks and can't run, most of the time they're clogging up the bases for somebody who can run."
--Dusty Baker, Cubs manager (Chicago Daily Herald)
"Who's been the champions the last seven, eight years? ...Have you ever heard the Yankees talk about on-base percentage and walks? Walks help. But you ain't going to walk across the plate. You're going to hit across the plate. That's the school I come from."
--Baker
Footnote, to answer Dusty's question about the Yankees. "The intent was to have a collection of guys with a high on-base percentage and a high slugging percentage, and that would lead to a lot of runs scored."
--Brian Cashman, Yankees GM, on off-season acquisitions
"It's called hitting, and it ain't called walking. Do you ever see the top 10 walking? You see top 10 batting average. A lot of those top 10 do walk. But the name of the game is to hit."
--Baker
If we missed anything - please use the contact form to let us know
